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Behind the Scenes: Setting Up for the Show

 

Introducing the Spotlight Series: From Surviving to Living

  📍  📍  📍 Today,  I am with Felicia and you have such an interesting story. In fact, when we met   📍 Briefly earlier in the week and you shared that story with me. I just was so entertained. I mean, it's it's a difficult story. But at the same time it just It's riveting. 

Felicia's Journey: From Unawareness to Mental Health Advocacy

So, can you give us a brief introduction, if you like,  who you are and where you're from, but before I say that, uh,   📍 the central question or problem for today is this, is good mental health possible if you are unaware that you have a problem?

How do we define good mental health? Uh, what are some common misconceptions or myths about mental health? awareness that prevent people from getting help. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got to the point where those questions were poignant for you? 

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Uh, yes. My name is Felicia Smith. I, um, reside.

I'm fairly new to Minnesota. I've only been here since December, uh, 13th, 2022, uh, originally from Ohio  and  I had mental health issues. But I didn't know,  and I've struggled with that.  Um, I came here to Minnesota after being incarcerated for nearly five years because my aunt told me Minnesota has really good mental health services.

Mm hmm. And it would help me with my reentry back into society, being successful and such. 

Sure. 

So 

The Struggles of Growing Up in Poverty and Family Addiction

tell us about   📍  📍 growing up then. If you weren't from Minnesota,   📍 I know you'd mention your mom and your dad, and that was difficult. Yes.  Tell us a little bit about that and how you got to the point where  life got a little more serious.

Um, yeah. So, I grew up, um, in what people would call poverty. We didn't know we were poor. It was just the way things were. Um, my mother and father, um, they struggled.   📍 My father was a alcoholic, um, and a violent alcoholic at that. Um, he broke out windows. Tore things up in the house caused us to run out of the house in the middle of the night my mother I  And now that I look back, um, she had some mental health issues too, but I didn't realize what they were.

Um, she was the kind of woman who would get up every morning and drink a beer. That's the first thing she did every morning. So probably an alcoholic as well. Yes. But a functioning one. Um, and then she also had a gambling addiction. And growing up, I saw the way we lived, um. And I said, I don't like it. So I set out to do better.

 

Achieving Success Against the Odds

 📍 I excelled in school. I graduated in the top 10 of my high school class. I went on to college, um, successful there, had internships that took me to New York and Akron, Ohio. Um, went, had, uh, outings where I went to Seattle. I was doing so much. It sounds awesome. It was, it was a   📍 great life. 

So yeah, so I was living a good life. I had a full time job as a sports reporter before I graduated my senior year of college, so I worked full time, went to school full time, didn't have a day to myself, and I just lived.  I didn't think that my mother or father's issues would come back up in my life. 

But later on they did, and I didn't realize it. 

The Downward Spiral: From Loss to Bank Robbery

  📍  📍 Um, and, and, you know, my father passed away in    📍 2022 after my mother  had a brain tumor that left her unable to talk and walk. And I came home to take care of her. And then a couple months later my father died, and I didn't deal with that. And those were the You Um, beginning steps of my struggle mental health wise.

  📍 ​

  📍 I think it, I think it's fairly common that when, um, someone grows up in a difficult situation like that, they see those problems as their problems, which we're not affected by unless we choose to be and we choose not to be. Yes. And so we're healthy. We are leaving unhealthy people and we don't realize the impact.

Yeah. You know, it's, it was trauma and I didn't realize that it would stay with me. throughout my life. Even now, you know, I deal with that.   📍 Um, in my household,  we weren't able to talk about the difficulties or the things going on. Everything was a secret. And so I carried that into my later years. I, when I was struggling, I didn't tell anybody.

Um, when I had issues, um, um, my mother ended up passing in, um, uh, September of 2009 on my grandmother's birthday.  So there is another  something that I have to deal with. I have to try and celebrate my grandmother, but more than my mother on the same day. And I, again, I didn't deal with it. I just closed myself off and I just tried to get through each day.

And people would be like, Oh, Felicia, you're doing so good. You're handling this magnificent. And I was just,  You know, I wasn't handling it. I wasn't dealing. 

So then tell us about your, um, this fabulous job and career that you discussed. And you receive information that your mom has gotten cancer and is really struggling and so you're going to come home and help take care of her  and put that career on hold and tell us.

What happened after that? Yeah, so when my mom, mother was diagnosed with um, it was thyroid cancer and if you have a cancer, it's one of the ones you actually want to get because the survival rate is like 98%.  And unfortunately my mother was not one of those who survived. Um, so I left actually a job down in Louisiana and I came back, went back to Ohio to take care of my mother, so I was in a good relationship down there, I thought we were headed toward marriage, but I left all that.

to go back to Ohio to help my mother.  

  📍 ​

  📍 And again,  leaving a job, leaving a relationship, more trauma, but I didn't deal with it. I just said, I gotta take care of my mother. She took care of me as a kid. I gotta take care of her when she needs it. So, um, the only thing my mother would do to get out of the house was to gamble.

So we did it. Um,  we would gamble. Um, I eventually took another job in upstate New York and she would come stay with me for six months out of the year. And again, the only thing she would do was gamble and I would go do it with her. Um, I didn't think that was going to be an issue for me because I took her to get her out of the house.

I didn't think it was impacting me. Right. But when she passed away,  Gambling was the only thing she and I really had in common, and so I started doing it.   

  📍 ​

  📍 And I started doing it more and more, and it became a focus of my life. Um, it was so much that I worked from 8 a. m. to 4. 30. I would wake up at midnight, go gamble from midnight until 7, 10. 

And barely get there for work  and it became, it started taking over my life and you know, I was losing money, um, I, at the time I had savings, but I was going through it and eventually I had nothing. And I saw  a news story where this guy robbed the bank and he got caught and he got caught because he had his license plate on the car, on his getaway car.

So, of course you're going   📍 to get caught. They know who you are. And in my head, I was at a point where I was like,  I could do better than that.  How dumb could he be? I could do it. I could do better than that.  And this stayed with me. I didn't realize at that moment that I had OCD and this would stay with me for a year, on and on.

Um, and you know, it wasn't right. It's not something that a normal person thinks about. 

It sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but often when we have mental health issues, we want to fix our symptoms or  We don't realize it's the gambling that's got to go. We recognize we just need to make whatever we're doing wrong easier and then the trouble will leave our life.

So exactly. You just needed money in your mind not to get rid of your addiction. 

Yeah. I didn't think I had an addiction. I didn't think I had other mental health issues. I didn't think I had a obsessive compulsive disorder. I didn't think I had bipolar. I didn't think I was depressed. I didn't think I had anxiety, but I did.

  📍 ​

  📍 And so.  Not knowing I had any of that stuff, I was focused on  money and just continuing the gamble.  And so eventually, I got desperate where I had no money to pay rent, I had no money to make car payments, I had no money to eat. You know,  so what did I do? I said, I can do it better than him. So, I decided to do it.

I decided to go and rob a bank. 

Well, you must have felt pretty confident because you've been thinking about it for a year. Yes. So, you probably spent much time planning. So, after a year, you were ready. I don't know if 

I was ready because, like I said, I thought about it, I did, for a year. And, on a Saturday that I was working, I was at work and I said, I'm going to do it today.

Okay.  And so I told my boss that I wanted to leave work early and I did. Um, I got in my car and I went, I stopped. I had some electrical tape. I put it on my license plate to mask my numbers and I drove up to another city, another county  and I parked in a shopping lot and I sat there for a couple hours trying to work up to do it.

  📍 I kept telling myself, you can do this.  You know you're not going to get caught.  All right. You can do this. So I had, you know, you have to pump yourself up like you're at a,   📍 in a game or something. Like, you know, so I did it. So I went in to this bank. 

  📍 ​

  📍 I thought I was going to do better. I didn't get caught at that time, so I guess I did better, but no. So I go in, I have glasses, you know, I wear glasses and I have a distinct, uh, gap in my teeth. So I put some paper over my teeth so they couldn't see my teeth and I put big sunglasses over my glasses. I had a hoodie on and a hat and I went in and I, I guess maybe I was too nice.

I said, give me all the money  and the lady looked at me and she said, Can I help you? And I, I'm sorry, I said give me all the money please. Yes, I used the word please because I am courteous. And so, and so she looks at me and like I said, she goes, how can I help you? And so, I had a knife with me, um, my intention was never to hurt anyone.

I had made sure before I actually went into the bank that there was no one else there because I didn't want to scare anybody unnecessarily. And I knew I would scare the, the um, worker, but. It had to happen because I needed to get the money. So, I pulled out the knife and I set it on the counter. I didn't point it at her.

I didn't tell her I was going to hurt her or anything. And I said, please give me all the money. And so this time, she did. So I put my Walmart shopping bag. The plastic one that they give you up on the counter. She put some money in and I turn to leave and I drop all the money  It just goes everywhere  You know, oh my gosh How bad can you get at robbing a bank, right?

so I have to lean down and I'm trying to scoop up the money and I'm trying to do it fast because of course the Police are on their way and I'm scooping and I throw some in I have to leave some and I I get out and I get in my car and I go and I stop at a apartment building. I, I count the money. It's less than 1, 000.

Less than 1, 000. I just robbed the bank and I got less than 1, 000. 

It sounds also like you kind of traumatized yourself with the whole situation. Yes. Of, you know, dropping things and rushing out of there in the fear that the police are coming. And.  You can tell me if this isn't the case, but it sounds like the past year and even maybe years before it, you're really in an escape from trauma mentality.

And so you told me earlier when we had a meeting about today that You later on during that day just went and did something with family as if nothing had ever happened. I 

did  You know, it was the day that I did it I sort of planned it because it was Christmas Eve and I know that they had they should have had a lot of money on hand and That there wouldn't be very many  cops on patrol because it was close to a holiday and people take the holidays off.

  📍 ​

  📍 So I, like I said, I counted the money. I took the electrical tape off my license plate and I drove to my sister's house where I picked up my little nephew  and we went to a football game.  And on the way to the football game, guess what I did? I stopped and got gas. I took the hoodie and the knife and I put it in the gas station trash can so it wouldn't be found.

And  and we went and watched the football game, and it was the only game that the Cleveland Browns won that year. So there was a good memory to it. You know, I was awful at the bank robbery, but there was a memory. And then, you know, after you do something like that,  you, you stress about it. You, you're constantly thinking, am I going to get caught?

Did they know me? My grandmother actually saw the bank robbery on the news  and I was sitting there with her.  Can you imagine that 

and so did they have footage from like the CCTV cameras where you're in the bank? 

Yes Yes, and my grandma didn't couldn't tell it was me. So but I'm sitting there going. Oh my god.

Oh my god Oh my god, grandma's gonna know  Yeah. Yeah, so this you know, that's additional stress additional, you know Strain on me things that this is all building up all building up. 

So what did you do next?   

  📍 ​

  📍 This wasn't the only bank that you robbed. This was the first of several. 

Yes, it was. 

So, what led you to be brave enough to keep moving forward, and what did that feel like? 

Well, between the first bank robbery and the second,  I got to a point where I didn't, you know, I didn't want to live.

I had been considered, had those thoughts previously, but after robbing that bank,  you know, the, the thoughts invaded me more, but I kept gambling. And so the next time I got paid, once again, I went and gambled away all my money.  And on the way home, it was about two o'clock in the morning.   📍 There was a semi on the wrong side of the road and I was driving toward it.

And I just wanted to die. I didn't want to live. Why would I want to live? I have no money.  I can't   📍 take care of myself. I'm struggling with life. 

  📍 ​



  📍 I had, I was, I, the relationship I had been in had ended. Um, I was living with my sister because I had lost my apartment.  I had nothing. I couldn't make my car payment. I was, I was at the end. I was at the end of my rope.

So I wanted to kill myself. So I started driving toward the semi. I switched   📍 lanes so I could be in the same lane as the semi that was on the wrong side of the road and I was just going to kill myself. And I'm driving toward that semi and he starts beeping and I just  swerve over and    📍  I don't go to my   📍 sister's where I have been staying.

I drive around all night. Part of me is like, maybe I could rob a subway. Maybe I could rob this store. Maybe I could. There's these  thoughts in my head. This isn't normal. This is not normal. And so that morning I ran out of gas  because I was driving and I didn't have a dollar to my name and a stranger actually brought me.

I ran out in the middle of a street and a stranger across from a gas station brought me some gas.  

Confronting Mental Health: Diagnosis and the Road to Recovery

  📍 And so after that, I drove straight to the hospital   and I told them that, you know, I needed help because I wanted to kill myself.  And so   📍 they put me, um, they sent me to a mental health facility in Willoughby, Ohio.

And I was there for about three weeks.  And there I was diagnosed with multiple things. Were you surprised by those diagnoses? I was. Um, they diagnosed me with depression, anxiety, gambling addiction, bipolar, um, obsessive compulsive disorder. For It just wasn't one thing that I was dealing with. It was multiple things.

And I had no clue. And they actually wanted to do the, uh, CTE, where they electric shock you. They wanted to do that to me because they said I was in such bad condition 

mentally.  And you told me then that you, you stayed the three weeks, but you didn't stay, I think, as long as you would have liked. Um, so 

what happened, um.

They actually didn't want me to leave after the three weeks, but I felt I was doing better. They put me on medication. I wasn't thinking about gambling or anything and I thought I was doing okay. So they let me go home, but I was in an outpatient, um,  uh, program. So I had to go five days a week and I was going, I was doing good.

  📍 ​

 I wasn't thinking about gambling or anything  and  insurance said, okay, four weeks is enough of outpatient therapy. You're done. And it was a mindfulness therapy and I had never done mindfulness before and it was seemed to be working for me. And so they told me I was done.  I was still off work. Um, I had, uh, you know, uh, mental health.

So I was able to take the time off my job.  And  like that same weekend  I had money.  

The Thrill and Downfall of Bank Robberies

I went and gambled it away.  And then, what did I do?  I didn't have any more money. So I had to rob another bank.  This time I did better. I did better this time, though. I did. I went in, and I, uh, said, give me all the money, please.

And the girl at the counter was scared. I, I, and I, I had a knife, and I pointed it down into this, um, reusable grocery bag. And the girl at the counter, she starts throwing money in, and then she stops. And I'm like Give me more and so she puts more money in and I leave and I go get the car washed. Who does this?

Who goes and robs a bank and then goes to a car wash? Me! So I go to the car wash, I'm counting the money while I'm in the car wash, 7, 000.  And then I do it two more times,  

yeah. Did you go through the money fairly quickly then with your gambling addiction? I did. I would just 

go and gamble it all away.  

Yeah, and so,  you know, thinking about the time between when you first realized there's mental health issues here until  you are where you are today.

Yes. Where you understand it takes more than three weeks inpatient and four weeks outpatient and you're doing well. There's a lot of learning to be involved there through experience. I'm thinking, did people give up on you? Um, 

The Turning Point: Arrest and Realization

  📍  📍 no, and that was important because eventually,   📍  the fifth time I thought I was going to rob a bank, I got caught. 

And I was arrested, I was incarcerated for 90 days. Um, my aunt, my sister, um, they were there for me. Those were the two people who were there for me the most.  Um, they had to let me go after the 90 days because the fifth time I didn't actually rob a bank. I went in and I was going to do it. Something in my head told me not to and I walked out, but the bank teller said I was suspicious.

They called the police. The police found me. I had a false plate on the car. Uh, it wasn't my vehicle. It was my nephew's and I had a note in my purse saying that this is a bank robbery. Give me up. Well, it actually said, be cool. Cool. Cool. This is a bank robbery.  And then they had some other stuff telling them that it wasn't their money and that I was not going to hurt anybody.

So you were in the bank for about 10 seconds, you don't have a good feeling, so you leave, you drive away, but they had thought you were suspicious. Yeah, and I 

probably would have thought I was suspicious too. And so, yeah, so they called the police, I was arrested. 

The Struggle for Rehabilitation in Incarceration

  📍 ​

  📍 Um, during that time, while I was incarcerated for those 90 days, I spent most of my time.

alone because I was suicidal. I didn't eat for 12 days or drink anything for four days. Um, on the phone call, I don't remember a lot of it, but I have read transcripts of that phone call later. I told my aunt, I'm not a good person. I want to die. I'm gonna kill myself. 

It's so interesting that you say while you were in prison, you stopped eating and stop drinking fluids.

As you know, I was incarcerated, and that began by being arrested and spending time in jail first, and for the first couple of weeks  I said it was an intentional fast. Really? And didn't eat for, I think it was at least two weeks. Yeah. But truthfully, I wasn't interested in any type of health fast or religious fast. 

It felt probably like you did and I was just naming it because the jail was going to force me to eat if I didn't have a good reason to starve myself and so to get them off my back I said that but  I didn't realize how common that experience can be. Yeah, 

yeah, and so they um, didn't force me to eat but they sent me to another mental health facility and there was the first time I actually had counseling.

I was able to speak to somebody about that. what was in my head and my childhood because remember I was hiding all this. Nobody knew any of this stuff that I've been through. Nobody knew what was going through my head. Yeah. And that was the really first time that I felt that I was talking to someone I could open up to and share my experience and sort of  understand my mental health.

And so after those 90 days they had to let me go because I didn't do anything. There was nothing they could charge me with because I truly didn't do anything. Um, but, but, During that time I was incarcerated, the FBI came and they said, we believe you've been involved in four other bank robberies. And they had pictures and they were like, is this you?

Is this you? We have your phone. And I was like, yeah. And they were like, okay. Uh, you know, I gave them the passcode to my phone and with like triangular electronic data, they could see where I was at. And I was at the locations of the bank robbery, but they still had to do an investigation. So,  Um, I believe I got out of, uh, jail  in September of two thousand, I'm sorry, yeah, two thousand and  17  and it took them until November of  2018 before they arrested me and indicted me on federal charges.

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  📍 What did that tension feel like waiting for the shoe to drop knowing you're being investigated and you've already spent 90 days in jail, which you did not enjoy? 

No. Um, so when I got out, I told my sister, I said,  it's not over. And she was like, what? You didn't do anything. I said,  I'm going to be going to jail.

I'm going to go to prison. I was like, it's going to happen. When, I don't know. But, I'm not going to tell you anything so that you don't have to. You can't testify against me or anything. I said, don't, so don't ask me any questions. And so, I knew I, at this point I knew I had mental health issues. And I wanted to address them.

So, I sat out a counselor, um, a therapist, and it took me five people before I found one I felt comfortable with. I think a lot of time,  um, people think that they have to go to the first person, that they have to stay   📍 with the first person they see. You don't, and you shouldn't. You need to find somebody that you feel comfortable with sharing any and everything with.

And it took me five people before I did that.   📍 And once I found Kim, um, I went every week. Not  every other week or once a month. Every week I went in to see her.  every single week. 

And you mentioned to me as well that something you do now that is very helpful for you that you didn't do before is be transparent.

Yes. 

Um,  keeping secrets isn't good for anybody. I didn't know that. I thought that was normal. I thought everybody had all this stuff and they didn't share. Um, but  now I talk about everything, you know, I don't hide, um, that I've been incarcerated. I tell people. Um, when I meet people, if I'm at an organization and they're like, Oh, well, why did you come to Minnesota?

I let them know about my background that I was incarcerated. Um, once I was indicted and incarcerated, I spent a couple years in county jail because of COVID. I was in a cell by myself for 20 out of 24 hours a day, which isn't healthy either. And when you're in a county facility, you don't get counseling. 

They will give you medication and I was medicated up really, really well. And I slept those first two years away. I don't, I don't know too much that happened. My aunt, she sent me books and I read those books, but  that's a lot of time to lose. And I lost that time because of my own actions and not getting the help I needed before it got so 

bad.

So then you received  counseling after COVID was over and you were in a regular prison? Not really. That's, you know,  

um, excuse me, people think  that people who are in prison are getting all this rehabilitation. So incorrect. Um, I went to, I was in six different facilities and  at the last facility I was at in Waseca, Minnesota. 

I started being part of, uh, a CTP program. Uh, it's a behavioral health, um, program. And I think I went to it maybe three or four times. And it was a group setting. And I still struggled with being in a group setting and sharing everything. I still struggle with that because these are people that you're going to see every day.

And this is in prison. And if you share something, guess what? They're going to talk about it to other people. And I was still struggling with that. And so, I, I, I, It's, when I was released, um, part of my, uh, probation was to, that I have to continue on my medication and I have to have counseling.  And so, today, I still receive counseling, but I'm open.

I talk with my friends, my family. about how I feel and what I'm going through when I'm not in a good situation. I don't hide it anymore. 

I am curious. You're talking about  the initial time you went to the hospital and you were released and it wasn't a long enough treatment so you went back to bank robbery and now you've had more experiences with counseling.

What was the difference this time do you think for you?  you from relapsing? Um, 

the difference this time is that one, I am on medication. Two, I realize that I'm not perfect and I'm not perfect.  Not being perfect and asking for help is important and essential. Uh, three, I have support because I am being open and honest about what I'm going through.

I have people who will support me if, if I'm struggling. I have people I can talk to about it. And um, you know, a change of scenery because the triggers were in Ohio for me. Um, you know, do they disappear? No. Everything, all the trauma, everything I went through is still with me. For more information, visit www.

FEMA. 

Finding Purpose and Redemption

gov   📍 But while I was incarcerated my last two years, I sort of woke up   📍 and realized that,  hey,  while I was in there, that  people needed help.  

  📍 ​

  📍 And so I started, um, filing grievances, helping people write to their judges to get out of incarceration, be, uh, have their First Step Act credits, um, added up. Uh, and I realized, oh my gosh, I have a purpose.

I did not have a purpose in life. When I look back during that time where I was robbing banks and things, I had no purpose. So you do not have a purpose. 

You were fairly aimless then. Yes. You had a career. I had a career. And you had family and many of people think this is important components of life, but if you don't understand your meaning and your purpose, and it sounds like But that understanding which came with helping people through that purpose and receiving that feedback is a big change.

Yeah, it's huge. You know, when my mother was alive and I was helping her, that was my purpose, to help my mother, to care for my mother, to get her through her final years. When she passed away I had no purpose. I didn't have children. Um, I was in a relationship. It wasn't a great relationship. I was working for the state of Ohio.

Um, my job, I was actually a driver's license examiner at that point. Um,  but my job was, I didn't think at my job. I just got in the car, told people to go left, right, straight, up. You pass your test, here's your license.  So, I didn't have nothing, I wasn't using my mind, I wasn't helping anyone, I was aimless and I didn't realize that.

And you know,  did I ever want to be incarcerated? Absolutely not, but  being there helped me get here 

to a better place. 

Reflections on Change and Growth

So that leads me to my next question. Looking back at all of this, what do you think it has done in affecting you and the person you are today? What's yours? attitude looking back towards what you went through.

You said you wouldn't change it,  because it has benefited you in the long run. Yes. Trials and tribulations make us stronger. They do. However, I'm curious, how would you describe how you've changed and how it's affected you overall? 

Well, my sister is like,  she tells me, she's like, you've changed. Um, before I was judgmental.

I was a very judgmental person. Oh, they went to jail? I don't want to have anything to do with them. They're a bad person.  Well, I learned while I was incarcerated that everybody makes mistakes. That I can't, who am I to judge other people, you know? Um, I believe in the Bible it says not to judge. And I was very judgmental, um, and today I'm not.

I just take people for what they show me. I don't think about their past. I don't think about their future. I Um, when I got out of, uh, prison, I came back and unfortunately my aunt has stage four cancer, but I helped her and I had to get a job because that was part of my probation, so I applied for one job, and it was with a non profit, helping people, because that's what I need to do.

I need to help people. 

And so,  you know, I like that you said all of these things describe you being better at relationships. Yes. With your family, with the people you were incarcerated with, and your lack of judgment. Now, I would say lack of condemnation over others in their situation allows you to be more available.

Yes. And more, um,  approachable. Yes. I think is very important. And if you want to help people, you have to be approachable. You can't be,  I didn't know that growing up and I did what you did. I kept secrets. I tried to pretend everything was fine and nobody can relate to that because no one else is fine every single day.

And so then what are they going to talk to you about? They don't want to look like they're not fine when you're so fine.  And so, um, I do want to talk a little bit since. 

Exploring Faith and Mental Health

It's, you know, From   📍 Surviving to Living is a faith based podcast,  and I want to really help people that the Bible, I did not know this. I suffered from clinical depression for decades, and really compartmentalize that, that  God is in charge of what you do at church, and that's how you behave, but my mind, well, that's got to be something entirely separate that God doesn't know anything about.

So, and I. I don't know why I made that distinction except for my depression felt so permanent. Yeah. And so impossible to get better. And I tried everything, books, medicine, counseling, and just wasn't getting better. And when I actually started reading the Bible, I was shocked by all these verses that talk about the heart and the mind.

And so I'm just going to share a couple of them.  When I first read this in the book of Jeremiah, I, I didn't think it applied to me, but it doesn't have any qualifiers. And it says,   📍 "the heart is deceitful above all things. And the heart, it's referring to the seed of emotions, not our physical heart. And it is exceedingly perverse and corrupt and severely mortally sick.

Who can know it? Who can perceive, understand, and be acquainted with his own heart and mind?  And that's what we're talking about here when.  Someone has mental health issues and they don't even know it.  After we talked, I thought about, we can have a physical illness and not know it at first. You can go months or even years with a cancer and put off the symptoms to something else and not the true cause.

Cause in the illness. I believe the same is true with mental health you can suffer for years and you put the symptoms off to something else and have no idea something's wrong and This talks about this right here and  there are so many verses about  how God heals and transforms  but in Romans 12 verse 2 it says   📍 do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the entire renewal of your mind with its new ideals and its new attitude so that you may prove for yourselves what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

 And I like how it says prove for  right know it for yourselves what good mental health is what healthiness is  And then finally you talked about having purpose  and helping others and finding meaning in that. And, and I just, as we were talking, I had looked up one other verse because it's important that the Bible tells us mental illness is real and you might not know it.

It also tells us how to get better. the entire renewal of your mind, new ideas, new attitudes, so you can prove for yourselves what is good. But finally, why? And Ephesians 2 says,   📍 For we are God's own handiwork. His workmanship recreated, and that's the renewal of the mind, recreated in Christ Jesus that we may do those good works which God planned beforehand for us.

taking paths, which he prearranged ahead of time, that we can walk in them and have a good life.   📍 And so all of those things are there and it sounds like your life really holistically shadows all of that in your journey.  And so I am so glad that you are with us. I'm so glad you shared this with me. I just want to finish by saying so much of what you said.

I found my own journey paralleled, even though I'm not a bank robber, my crime is different. But the time in prison, the time in jail, helping others and finding meaning is so important. And also not judging others. I was very judgmental before I went to prison. to prison and I find now I'm much more open and that makes me relatable with better relationships as well.

So I hope you will come back at some point in the future. I am certain that what you are doing now, you will have good stories to share about helping others and, um, our listeners and viewers on their journey. So Thank 

you so much for allowing me to share and, um, with your viewers and listeners and I definitely hope I can come back again.

Yeah, it's a great story. So wonderful. So thank you. Thank you, Holly. All right. 

So this is the end of the show. Thank you everybody for watching. You can see more great episodes like this one at my website, hollybot. me. And I hope I'll see you there. Thank you. 

  Look for more episodes that inspire@hollybot.me. Until next time, remember, your story is never over. God's grace is always waiting to rewrite it. This is from Surviving to Living. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.