β€Š πŸ“ Oh ah oh, Oh ah oh Oh ah oh You know, these hit and run 1993s Can't relate, baby Oh ah oh, Oh ah oh These hit and run people Oh ah oh β€Š Getting Settled: The Pre-Interview Banter The That and β€ŠThe mic works best doesn't make any difference. Grounds. Yeah. My parents, πŸ“ uh, their what the show is and. Sure. Sure. Introducing the Show's Theme: The Problem of Pride β€ŠWe are on From Surviving to Living, the Spotlight Series, and with Dan, β€Šand we're going to be talking about the problem of pride. How does God define pride compared Society and why does God think of it as a problem and then for people who are listening or viewing this podcast? How can they apply when it comes to pride and becoming more Christ so having said all of that Dan why don't you tell us a little bit more about who you are today? Dan's Journey: From Drug-Fueled Chaos to Redemption β€Š πŸ“ Where you're from and how you came to understand Okay, good. β€ŠYes. My, well, my name's Dan and I, uh, originally from Racine, Wisconsin, Southeastern very near Milwaukee. I came up here to go to school. I didn't, I'm not much of a student actually. And I ended up selling my last student loan check and bought a motorcycle. So that was the end of that deal. then I let, uh, basically I lived a life of, Hippie biker, basically. Now, the difference between a hippie and a hippie biker is hippies are psychedelic, but hippie bikers are psychodelic. Little distinction there. But I ended up, you know, hopelessly addicted to drugs and alcohol, violent lifestyle, sold a lot of drugs. Um, lived in a crazy house where we pushed motorcycles through the kitchen and into the dining room. We took the wheels off and lifted them up on these tables so we could wrench them into the dining room in the wintertime. And then, it also, so it doubled as a repair facility, but it also doubled as an indoor shooting range. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠWe actually had targets drawn in the walls and we'd stand in the living room and it's amazing, I can hear, I can hear. I'll tell you, after having a hearing left, it's amazing. Laughter. And I ended up, um, meeting a woman who said she wouldn't get involved with me until I changed my lifestyle. And I kind of hemmed and hawed for a while, but I got to the point where I really was on a suicide mission. I didn't care anymore if I lived or died. I was, my favorite drug was heroin, and my second favorite drug was cocaine. And it got to the point where we were selling quite a bit of cocaine and I was, I remember, uh, kind of a defining moment. I was sitting under a table. I was so paranoid that I was sitting under a table shooting cocaine with my dog sitting there with nobody else in the house. And I was like, I was almost just afraid, uh, I was afraid to really move much because, uh, we were definitely on a police radar. And, um, Finally, I just, I called her up and asked her if she'd wait for me when I went to, if I went to the treatment center. She said she would. So I checked myself into St. Mary's Rehab on the West Bank. Now, it's called Fairview Recovery, and I did the treatment center. I checked myself into the treatment center. The second day, I started becoming sober for the first time in about five years, and I had this huge guilt trip over my head. And I just decided I was going to sleep in a treatment center that night, and go back out in the street the next day and just kill the pain the only way I knew how. Well, by God's grace, one of the guys I rode with, his father and mother were strong believers. And I got to know them a little bit because we'd go there and basically mooch money off them when we were low on gas and stuff. And his mom would cook breakfast for us and she'd wash our clothes. We could take a shower in the house and stuff. So, yeah. And she'd have KTIS playing in the background the whole time, telling us about Jesus we're kind of going, yeah, yeah, right, whatever. And eventually, his father came up that third night, right before, right before visiting hours ended. He brought a little paperback Bible and some tracts and stuff, and he's talking about Jesus. And I said, uh, you know, Mr. Denny, I know all about Jesus. You know, I went to church and stuff when I was a kid, but there's no way God could forgive me for the life I've led. And he shot back 9, if you confess your sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive your sins and purify you from all unrighteousness. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠAnd I figured that that word all probably would cover anything I had done in the past. So I walked back up to my room and my head was spinning and I didn't know what was going on. I mean, it was like I was, it was just a, it was just a very strange moment. I was paging through this Bible and these tracts. And before I even knew what happened, I was kneeling next to the bed, sobbing like a baby, confessing every sin I could think of. And I just surrendered my life to Christ. I said, you know, Lord, I can't take this anymore. I can't do this anymore. If you want me, please take me. Now, how old were you at that point? Probably, I think I was 27. So you got into doing drugs about age of 20, 21, is that right? No, no, I started, really it was probably 8th grade was when I started smoking weed initially. And I was involved in sports and stuff, so I didn't really get that involved, but I mean, just recreationally, I realized how much I loved drugs and alcohol at a very early And so these people that you were living with, To your knowledge, did they have a similar mindset as you doing the drugs, living in this house and the motorcycles coming in and stuff of, it almost sounds like about life and living and future goals. And this is all that there is. There were no goals. Uh, there were, you know, basically we were just trying to make enough money to get the next, next score, basically. So it was selling drugs a part of earning enough money to buy drugs. Right. Exactly. I Hesitate to use it use the word drug dealers because drug dealers made a profit and we didn't make a profit We would just do any extra drugs. We didn't sell we would do them ourselves Sure. I have a question then with this woman woman that you met. How did you come to meet her? At a crazy party for a guy named Harold Baldwin. We called him Baldy and I met him. I used to work at a small independent repair shop in South Minneapolis. And he came in and brought his cars and trucks there and stuff. And I would, I would work on his cars and trucks and we formed a relationship. He lived very close to the bar we hung out in. So I'd see him at the bar and he actually had an old Honda Goldwing and he'd ride with us periodically. And we got, that's how we got to know him. His 80th birthday party. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠI walked in and it was, uh, a pretty blonde with, uh, the old seventies disco boy, you know, the, the white guy with the Afro and the gold chains with the shirt button down to here, you know, and they were, they were sitting there. She had a red silk dress on. And of course he was all dressed up too. And in the midst of all these crazy maniacs. So, I mean, they really stood out like a sore thumb. And I was in the kitchen and I started talking to her and I happened to be smoking and. Smoking some weed and I went to pass the joint to her and she said no, I don't smoke and I just said what are You doing here? Well, it turned out she was she grew up in that neighborhood and she was Harold Baldwin's daughter's best friend so that's how I got to know her and we it's Craziest to even when I think about it, but she ended up taking it. We sort of hit it off We were carrying a conversation in the kitchen and she ended up taking a disco boy home and she came back You And we talked until probably three o'clock in the morning. when she left, and I mean, we just talked. That's how we just sat on the couch and talked. And my friend Brian was there. And when she left, I looked at him. I said, you know what, Brian? I said, one of these days I'm going to marry that And he looked at me, he said, man, she's so far out of your league. It's unreal. You know, she was, she was working at the university, had a newer car, the So that's how I got to, that's how I met her initially. So, what is her background in comparison to yours, because it can be difficult when people come from two different backgrounds to get together, and it sounds like she's quite different. Quite different. Well, actually, it was, her father was a very abusive alcoholic, so she grew up in a household where she was the oldest, and when her dad went into a tirade, she would take the younger kids and, uh, usher them into the closet, basically, and close the door and try to break it up. So there was a time where she actually saw her father in a bedroom sitting on top of her mother in the bed with a butcher knife she had, she would scream when she when she screamed, when she realized, when he realized she was there, he dropped the knife and, but that's how she grew, that's the household she grew up in. So I think that was the initial attraction, is her dad was very similar, violent, alcoholic, very much like I think that was, that was the initial That does make sense. And it sounds like though that she had path than, than you did. A New Life Begins: Embracing Change and Finding Purpose β€Š πŸ“ And so that brings you treatment there that first day. β€ŠNow, everything doesn't become perfect just because we've accepted Christ as our savior. We aren't rescued circumstance. He's going to bring us through it. He's going to teach us some things. So what did that look like for you? On a gradual basis. Yeah. Well, For me, I was, when I went through the treatment program, I was able to take an occupational assessment. They offered me an occupational assessment that indicated I had some No, I made up my mind because now my wife, Jerry, by the way, I forgot to tell you that I ended up marrying that woman and we've been married for 40 years now. So congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. And she and I, we had formed a relationship at that time. And, um, So I really wanted to make some changes. I really wanted to do right by her and also by the Lord. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠI was trying to live for the Lord then, you know, I committed my life to Christ. I, this occupational assessment indicated I had some sales aptitude. So I went back and the guy I worked for at the shop, I'd been ripping him off blind for about three years. I mean, when I was working, a lot of times I'd work until 10 o'clock at night. And if somebody came in and needed some work, I would do side jobs. For cash. A hustle. Exactly. So I went back and I confessed what I had done to him. And he just, he was like, first of all, shocked. He was like, what? What are you, are you telling me that you're ripping me off? Yeah, you ripped me off. You know, but he, then he was, he was impressed by it. I told him why I told him, you know, I've got a relationship with the Lord now. Um, you know, I'm going to AA. So I've got to, I've got to make amends So he forgave me and at the same time I said, look, I'm gonna give my, my, my two week notice explore a different path. So I started looking at different sales jobs and I, my first sales job was selling Herbalife and that taught me a lot. It was very motivational. I went to all these little rah rah sessions And then I sold a couple of other things, but I finally ended up getting a job at a car dealership selling cars. And, um, So it was just a, a total change of direction, a total change of focus. And that's, I think that's what got me on the right path and kept me on the right path. So I just really kept myself busy. And I'm thinking too as you're talking, when you went to boss and confessed what you had done, it was the right thing to do, not because you want to, that to further a different purpose because you put in your No and went somewhere else So week notice and he never would have known there was nothing to gain right other than to go ahead and do that. Yeah, that must have been very Counter culture. Yeah, everything you had been living before. Oh my I mean it was a 5. 17 says, Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he's a new creation. The old has gone, the new has come. And I mean, I firmly believe that. That's, that was my experience. And yet it was a gradual process. It wasn't just a complete, you know, all of a sudden I was a choir boy. I mean, it was, I had a lot of things that I had. I mean, I'd led uh, horribly sinful lifestyle, a violent lifestyle. It hurt many, many people. Um, so we took it, you know, it was a gradual process. So, how did your previous friends feel about your new life? basically I lived in a house for a while. I actually lived in a house until I got married, but Brian is a good friend of mine. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠHe's probably my best friend. He was, in fact, it was his father who led me to the Lord. He told his dad that I was in treatment. he came up to and he and I were total partners in crime. And we wrote everywhere together. We did all our scams together, all our drug deals together. We were extremely And he basically, uh, he basically disowned me, disowned our friendship. In fact, he didn't even come to my wedding. He wouldn't come to my We got married about a year later and he didn't even, What an interesting contradiction for him having a father Witnessed and yet himself rejects all of that and it was sounds like he was the one who got his dad involved right to begin with. Well, it's funny because I don't know if it's funny. It's kind of sad really but these these crazy, uh hippie bikers I was so far gone and I was so out of control You That they actually tried to do an intervention on me I knew it was Eve. I came home from work and I'm ready to party. All that was there was three, two beer. And I mean, I, I just, I was, I was extremely angry. They sat down and tried to do an intervention on me. It didn't work, but I a try. Well, I guess that kind of highlights being a new creature versus and trying to do it on your own. And that sounds like that didn't work at all. Did you just do the treatment the one time? Because I know many people who more before they It works of Christ. you? By God's grace, I was able to, uh, I just, I got so involved in, in work and continuous self education. And also I got involved in ministry shortly after that too. I started working, started doing jail ministry addiction recovery on a small scale. Were you ever arrested during any of your time? I'm thinking about for jail ministry, then being able to go back. A lot of times there's background checks and things like that. Boy, it's so nice when you hear that gate clank knowing you're going to get back out again. Yes, it is. That same day. So that was That was, no, I just, I would probably, I was in so many different county jails Minnesota and and mostly just for fights drunken So then you've left job. You're married within that first year. What did it look like after that? Did you find that you had trouble with credibility because of your past or moving forward? say that because I know when I, when I got a hold started making changes, my life had been such a mess that had trouble believing that that was real. And so that was discouraging for me. Because I want to look forward to this new life and these new changes and people don't even believe the change is real. Right. Yeah. I didn't really experience that because I went into kind of a totally different world. Uh, a business world, which I had never been involved in a legitimate business before. So it didn't really have that problem. Some of the people in my hometown, though, And Racine, they had, they had a little bit more difficult time So you did then, it sounds like what many recovering alcoholics or addicts do. And that's a whole new everything. And that includes friends, job, in order to be successful. Um, I'm thinking back after that, would there have been any, Did you have any after salvation? some of Well, my, my big, I struggled with anger. I had a very, was very, I had a very volatile well, I remember one of the, again, the defining moment regarding that was I was, my wife and I were in, I Our laundry room and we were having a discussion. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠThe discussion got heated and I became more and more angry. And one of the cabinet doors were open in the laundry room. And finally I just turned around and I just gave it a right cross and I hit the cabinet And it knocked it off the hinges and it hit the dryer, bounced off the dryer, hit the washing And I looked at my wife and she had this look of fear, abject fear in her And I it just flashed back. Or I flashed back to what she probably just flashed her father. And, um, I was really convicted by that big And some friends of mine called me from my hometown and they were going to a men's retreat in Iowa. β€Š πŸ“ And he invited me to this men's So I went to the men's retreat. The Power of Humility: Overcoming Pride and Anger β€ŠThe first session was a gentleman, I don't remember his name now, but the gentleman was talking. The first session was about pride. And he started talking about how pride is the root of many, if not all, sin. I agree and he gave us a sheet. They talked about pride, pride prevents, you know, what pride prevents, and also, pride is responsible for all these other different And one of the sins on this list was anger. So I went through the session and everything was hitting me right between the eyes. Of course, I felt like he was talking directly at me. And he told us at the end of the session, I'll go out and find a quiet place and just reflect on what we were, what we had talked about. And as I sat there, the Holy Spirit impressed upon me that you don't have an anger You have a pride problem. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠAnd after that, I was so convicted by that, that I started, I could, every book I could find on pride, I bought the books and I studied them. And, really, I mean, I really studied them. And I think talking about pride being the pivotal feeling that all sin hinges on pride is really self reliance and God wants us to fully rely on Him. Yes. So pride is literally the opposite of faith in God. Yeah. It's faith in self. Right. And anger I've learned over the years because I also, from rage, horrible rage. Yes. And learning about that. Anger often comes from frustration due to Expectations not being met. That's right. And those are expectations We set ourselves based on our own plans. right and we cannot control everything And so when people don't do what we want things don't turn out how we like Then that pride that caused us to set our own met. Now we're preach it That's exactly correct. Yes Pride is really It's almost like self glorification as opposed to God I want to glorify And if I, if I can't glorify Right. Get away from me. Go away. in order to do that as well. Um, now I have not had a drug addiction in my past, but I know who have and they're good friends of mine, and they tell me that that's really. Not just using a drug, but it's a using mentality that includes using others And things like that. And so How did you come to Really understand that it's not Drug addiction. That's the problem. That's the symptom of all these other explore that well I Really again brian and I there were often times we didn't have jobs because we were what we call scooter tramps. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠWe just take the summer off and just ride our motorcycles everywhere. And we would basically, we would use women, for houses, for, you know, for places to crash, for money, for drugs. And like you say, it's just, it's just, you don't even think about that just a, It's kind of like I deserve everything My acronym for PRIDE is Please, P R I D E Please remember I deserve And that's kind of that's kind of the bottom line, you know, I mean all about me. It's an all about me mentality. Um, when I got out of treatment I was just by God's grace I ended up in a church that really preached the Bible unashamedly comprehensively, accurately, and I had a great pastor that great teacher, a great Bible So my wife and I, we would show up at the church anytime it Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday afternoon, night, whenever anything was open, And we also, again, we started, we started developing friendships relatively long term Christians or first generation or I'm sorry, second generation So, like you say, everything changed. It was a completely different, everything, everything was different. it sounds like you're describing in that church, the relationships you had were almost mentoring or discipling for people who were mature. yes. And that a major part in your, not just your growth, but your ability to stay on that track. Yes. Um, You know, when I first began reading myself, pride is everywhere in it. And I remember thinking to myself, I people are. I was so curious because I was blind to the fact that that was me. And slowly as I got to Romans where Paul says, it's everybody, you're all bad, that I, I was shocked. All these things that God says he hates. And that. That stuff that I had sounds like that's what you were learning. Uh, I want to talk now about the things that you do today. Cause you mentioned often people, when they change, they want tell that to others and want to help others. And so is that what you're doing now? Transforming Through Continuous Learning and Ministry Or can β€Š πŸ“ Yeah, I just, I was involved in, well, let me, β€ŠWhen I say involved, and let me just, let me back it up here because when I got a job in sales, I studied sales, reading sales books, because I had never really sold anything before, so I really, I, I really love continuous self education. Self education, I think, is probably, you know, no, no offense to anyone, but it's probably more valuable and more effective than college education or advanced degree. Because you get to study exactly what you're working on or working with. And then you can apply it immediately. And if you apply it immediately, you're more likely retain it. So I was, by God's grace, I was able to reach a level of success in sales, in car sales. And after two and a half years, I was offered a management job. So I just changed my course of I started studying all about management, how to motivate You know, the financial part is the thing I had the hardest time with. Respect. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠSo I just changed my course of study and I managed, I was managing a car dealership, a Mercedes Benz and Nissan dealership And I was coaching a couple of the sales people. Now, no one on earth ever feared public speaking more than me. No one on earth did. I can, I know that for a fact. But my dealer, the dealer, the owner of the dealership, I was mentoring a couple of salespeople and he was standing off to the side. I could see him in the corner of my eye and he's listening So finally I got done with the salespeople and he called me over and he said, he said, you know, I really like what you were doing there. I'd like you to do some Saturday morning sales meetings. And I said, no, him why. said, well, before you make a decision, Why don't you go, I'll give you Friday afternoons off at 2. 30, go to a meeting downtown called So, of course, Toastmasters teaches people to get over their fear of public speaking. You go for, of course, first session. There are 15 other people that have the same fears as you and they tell you just to talk for 30 seconds about anything. And once you get through that and realize you're not going to die, then we kind of just keep raising the bar. Well, I think after six months or so, they basically, it ended with them giving you a subject and you had to prepare a three minute speech, and if you could do that, of course you can graduate. Well, in the course of that, I realized, you know, I, not only did I like it, it was kind of fun, but I was kind of, I was pretty good at I started doing sales meetings and I became a corporate trainer at another dealership, developing training. course development, the whole deal. And again, I had to kind of study on my own to learn how to do that. then I went off on my own for ten years. I had my own business doing training consulting in the automotive industry. So, you know, I mean, here's a, you know, an ex biker freak. And I mean, I'm in this, I'm cast into this world hardcore professionals with advanced degrees. And I mean, I remember sitting, we'd have these big dinners. β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€Š And I remember sitting around these tables with all these people. And I'm looking down and there are, you know, three forks and a couple of spoons, you know, a spoon over here and, you know, knives. And I didn't know what, I didn't even know what to do. So I just sat there and I waited until people started eating and just kind of followed their lead. And so I learned how to eat in public, you know. So that's how far off I was. But I did that for ten years and I became a corporate trainer for a dealer group in Minneapolis here. And I recently, by God's grace, I just recently retired. The reason the moral of the whole story is and I just I hope people can understand this and really take it to heart Sometimes our biggest strength is hidden behind our greatest fear. I can't even I mean and that was so true in my life and I've seen it true in other people's So you have to be you have to be willing to confront that fear On the other side of the fear could be your greatest strength. Ephesians two 10 says, we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to So we've been given by God, we've been given gifts and talents and abilities that are unique to us, that he created us to do those So I completely agree. And, um, find that own life. Reflections on a Life Transformed: The Impact of Past Experiences Um, I'm, look, β€Š πŸ“ I'm thinking about all that you've said, and, and I have a question for you. β€ŠLooking back on your life and, and everything that we've just talked about, how do you think all of that has affected the person that you are today? Or even what is your attitude? Attitude towards what you went through? I, it sounds like you wouldn't change a thing. No, but I don't wanna put words in your mouth. No. I think, uh, we talked about this the other night The journey, you know, we all have a journey. Um, I think it's given me the ability to basically understand people. I try not to, and it's hard, but I try not to judge people because who am I to After the life I led, who am I to judge anyone? The Bible says, you know, we are called to judge those inside the church. If you see somebody inside the church involved in a, you know, some kind of a continual habitual sin. We are supposed to confront them, but the people on the outside, they're still in the darkness. They're still blinded. They're doing what comes naturally. So we can't really, who are we to judge them before they're even born again? All we can do is try to love on them and witness to them. And hopefully Well, reflect on your own situation how unlikely it probably would have seemed when you were in your early 20s That you would change at all, but you know that all of that was possible So when you look at others, that must be something that you're thinking wherever they're at, It's possible. Anything's possible Anything is possible. We're living We are. I think we're both living proof. I remember most with Pride, I had been a very defensive person. Insecure and defensive, and so Pride was my overcompensation. And I was in prison, and I had a new boss. Mm hmm. Who was me, very abrasive, aggressive, a nice person, but somebody that I wouldn't necessarily work well with and I made a mistake at work. And the mistake involved pointing out her mistake publicly, which did not go over well at all. And so she took me out into the hall and told me nose to nose, know your place and get in it. If anybody had said that to me prior than me knowing Jesus, they would have learned a new thing about places and where they belong, but I looked at her and instead of feeling challenged and aggressive, I found myself nodding. I do need to know my place. I do need to get in it. And I left that meeting shocked with my own self because I could not have Conjured that up. I couldn't have forced it. It wouldn't have been natural. It would have looked fake from the start. Manipulative. But she left satisfied that I really did accept what she said and changes would be made and I was just at what God can do in our hearts. For this to Both in James and 1st Peter, the next book. James 4, Peter 5, 5 says God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. So every time we humble you know, God Yes, I, I agree. You know, I was looking before we were going to have our episode today, our interview, Pride in the Bible, and just, All of the things, especially in Proverbs that God talks about, you know, Proverbs 11, β€Š πŸ“ when swelling, swelling and pride come, then emptiness and shame come also, but with the humble. Those who are lowly, who have been pruned or chiseled by trial and renounced their self are skillful and godly wisdom and soundness. And that's the amplified version, β€Šwhich I love because I really think it's important in order to know how to do something, you need to know what it means, not your own idea, God's idea. And you have been pruned and chiseled, chiseled by trial, have I. What would be your, takeaway if to someone who It sounds like reading the Bible, going to church, being discipled or mentored are all critical. Yes. Have I left something out? β€Š πŸ“ ​ β€ŠAnd stay busy. I think that's one of the most important things. The longer, you know, the more we sit around, the more we start, Satan will come in and start, you know, hitting us a little bit, you know, kind of nipping at our brains my, I still, I don't, I don't like to sit around much, I guess part of my personality, get busy, you know, start doing the Lord's work stay at it, keep, busy and stay at it. and again, you get the sense of fulfillment, but I also, I'm a big believer in it. But find your, find your gift, find your talent, find your, Find your God given ability, and then find a way to, first of all, study it, and then try to find a way to practice it. as much as possible. And if you can find it, if you can utilize it as a vocation, you'll never work another day in your life. I agree with that. I think that, you know, I'm part of renouncing self. I suffered from depression for a long time and learned that the biggest cure to depression is to focus on someone else So many ways to do that, but that's takes you way out of using behavior. The Final Thoughts: Wrapping Up the Interview And, and to And so I I think that's as well I am going to Wrap this all up, but I want to I want to thank you for being here. You're welcome Dan because Your your story is it's very humbling to learn that God can so quickly help someone that it doesn't always take 10, 20 times through treatment that God can do it all in one thing. That's what he does. I think of Jesus, whenever he healed someone, it didn't take six months to a year or several more visits before they were well, it was an immediate cure. Yes. And so, So, E. W. Tozer says, anything God ever did for anybody, God will do for anybody else. Your story isn't about what you did, it's about who And that's why it's so fun to be here, because we're sharing who we know. And that's the biggest takeaway, a relationship So, um, to our listeners, you can find more good episodes. Like the one that you've watched today on Holly bot me and Dan I hope that at some point in the future you will come back because this was such a short interview compared to We didn't even talk about your rest your bike riding and you still ride bike today Don't you still ride? I was amazed when you said that guy who's 80 years old was still riding a motorcycle And so yeah, he was a maniac Yeah, that's why we got along so well. Yeah, so that's really fun But um, that's the end of our show for today, so thank you good. Thanks holly appreciate it's been it's been a pleasure. β€Š Look for more episodes that inspire@hollybot.me. Until next time, remember, your story is never over. God's grace is always waiting to rewrite it. This is from Surviving to Living. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.