this is the From Surviving to Living Spotlight Series. And I am here with Al today. And we are going to be talking about a central question or problem, which is

not feeling

good enough.

Not measuring up 

and 

not meeting other people's expectations and wanting to be.  Accepted which is a really common. We all want acceptance in our community And then what does the God of the Bible say about our identity our value our worth? Where does that come from?

Al's Journey: From Duluth to Minneapolis

 And so I'm gonna turn it over to you a little bit Al Please tell us who you are and where you're from.

Okay, 

my

name is Al Rath, I'm from

originally Duluth 

Then I lived in Minneapolis and came here in

1985. 

I've been all over the Minneapolis suburbs and now I'm, living in Plymouth and I've been there for four years now.  What made you move down from Duluth to the cities? My girlfriend at the time got pregnant with my first my daughter.

And so she had come down. To take nursing school and so I followed get a job  take care of  Responsibility sure and just stayed down here had a career in  School district for  yeah, 25 awesome. Tell us a little bit about then this 

I

know that you have an interest, you

must have

background because

we met at Chain Breakers.

And so tell us a little bit

About what led you to Chain Breakers and what led you to this we're talking about. I had a drug, abuse, addiction for off and on for,  Several years and ended up going to prison,  as a result of it committed a

pretty

serious crime under the influence.

And so I had to do three, it was a 60 to 40. I spent 40 months in,

St. Cloud and Faribault.  And When I got out I just basically started my life completely have picked myself up some good people in my life and ended up going to chain

breakers

probably within the

few months  out, staying in a transitional housing which was near, Oak Grove.

Sure. And so that's how I got been going off and on. 

First couple years pretty steady, some decisions, but I go. I am going to assume that prison, hitting the moment where you were in prison wasn't the first time you had ever had trouble in your life.

Usually. Things lead up

that.

You mentioned you

a

The Spiral into Substance Abuse

drinking problem. How  

 📍 ​

Oh,

Found out

that I liked alcohol  probably, you know  in

high school

 📍 And certainly by the time I got to college. I was an athlete so it was limited in high school But once I got to college and was free then, I just liked I felt good about everything uninhibited so

a

lot of weed drank and that was it.

And  that was you know Certainly would say I did it  excess at times But that wasn't the it was when cocaine got involved.

when  started going downhill 

Yeah,

that's pretty common that people have

a lifestyle in college and might actually have a problem and not even  

Think of it 

that way because it's so accepted that this is just

college

culture I'm going to guess that's what your mindset was and

thoughts

were not even.

  📍 ​

 Yeah, that was just the thing to do. All of us did it. We go to the clubs on the and that was the thing. So  looking back, of course I can see the problem areas and more than the problems, like why 

I

enjoyed doing that. What happened when I would. 

Get

out of myself and, get a buzz and things became better, so that was just with the drinking and the weed is you started to Realize that can you tell me a little bit about that? What was that? What do you think you were chasing?

Or escaping,

Escaping Just when I felt more confident, I was very confident In superficial things like I was a phenomenal, I'll just say a basketball player and the high school I went to crowds would come to watch and watch me play and we were very good and I would get accolades from that and I loved that part.

But when the cheering stopped, I get to college. I did not go to a division one school. So then it was like, maybe you're not

enough.

I was still good in, in junior college is where I ended up going, 

it wasn't the same. And so when I would drink and go to parties, then all of a sudden I could talk to girls and that became the socialization.

That's where I started to

get the

attention or was able to communicate. And  that was. Pretty much the self esteem boost was through partying and going to dance is going to a club and meeting a girl and, So that was 

it

thing. Made it easier for you to blend in and feel good in your community.

And even though, the people you're interacting with are, 

intoxicated or

under the influence. So it's all superficial, but it's sure felt good at the time. And you don't think that way. You just think, yeah,

we

can do that again. 

So 

then if

it

sounds like just on the surface that you had a problem and you're solving it  quite well.

And 

I'm wondering then why did you add

it

or how did it lead to cocaine and things? 

The Battle with Cocaine: First Encounter

  📍 ​

 So I think I'd never.

Had anything

like cocaine. The way that made me feel initially was, 

Oh,

I can do anything. I like I am,

and it just, it triggered all the senses it for me. And it just was it was just great.

It

was,

it, was, I've, so I've had two bouts one when I came down Minneapolis about. Two or three years

being here

and tried it. I went for about six or eight months and was just off the rails with it like, why am I spending my rent

money?

Why am I

broke? I know, 

buying

weed or a six pack or a 12 pack is a lot different than,

All of

a sudden I'm spending 300, 400, 500 in

weekend or a night. 

And not knowing what the heck is going

on, 

I wanted that feeling so the ups and downs of it.

 📍 So the

first episode was about 1987, 88. And I, went into treatment pretty quick was done. So I was good for 

the

next 20 or so years. the problem

was what initially brought me to that.

Yeah.  was never addressed, the  stuff that was going on. I just knew I didn't want to spend all be

that.

but I never addressed the internal stuff. This is a common  that I have heard from some of my guests, that, they recognize there's an issue, but they're not correctly the real  They don't like the 

symptoms. 

And

we

need to get rid of these symptoms and they don't realize there's something deeper right happening So you went to treatment the first time how long were you in treatment

tell

us just a little bit about what that was Like for you  

  📍 ​

 I thought it was a fix, I went I

think

a

couple

of times It was hard  There's some stubbornness to me too.

Like I can, 

I'm,

I can control this. I have. And so I think I went and I relapsed just briefly. It went back in and just decided nothing's going to so it was, I felt like I was cured, once I got it together and I  

disconnected 

with the

I didn't really.

like friends that were involved with that. None of my friends really wanted to be any, it's scared them. So they,

So 

it was

Easy in terms of just getting away from the, where I had to go and what I had to do to obtain it.  so 

that was easier.

And I started to move out further into Fridley and Blaine and so away from So I, I just didn't have the access or, any of that or, and didn't have

go

looking for it. 

I think

the treatment was, it was okay. It got me sober for

a

while. I don't know if it's so much resistant to that, but I, I'm very analytical. I'm very, my, my brain gets in the way of stuff at times.

And some of the things that were taught and said, and I took what I needed and I think that really prevented the inter, I didn't realize at all that there was something deeper going on. That's not good for  I'm

curious then you. You had a, an uncomfortable lifestyle and you wanted to be comfortable again, which means getting rid of spending too much money 

using these drugs.

However, after you left treatment and became sober, were you still

feeling

uncomfortable socially or, wanting to be more accepted and now you don't have this helper? I think I was more I was a little more content because my daughter was born. And so I really focused on,

Raising her

and being in her life. And her mother and I just, we had a pretty toxic situation, but we loved our child to make this work. got together, stayed together.

Got married, 

eight years

after but we were off and on in a relationship But my daughter was always in my life and we were there. She one thing I would say

Every day she woke up she was

going to

see her dad. So that was

the focus and then I got a job in the schools and then she was growing up  Got involved with her sports and started coaching so there was a lot of things that I as I look back, I didn't really have to deal with myself because

the

other things I was looking for that made me feel good.

now

I'm doing this for my daughter and I'm getting that love. I'm getting

that,

I could do it all wrong because

I'm

dad. So that was the motivation behind So correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like at this time, then you had found some purpose, some meaning, and it was providing respect and affirmation, all of these great things.

So then what changed that? Was it your daughter getting older or what made this a purpose and meaning not be good enough anymore? We had a son, so eight years after my daughter, we have a son, so it's extended, the timeline. However, once 

they got

old enough, and

was

Me and my wife at the were divorced now, but Things really become, became volatile and in our relationship because the kids weren't around as much.

They were 

self sufficient, pretty much, and my daughter had gone to college , so  

  📍 ​

 My ex wife was, she said some things to me that I let get to me like I was a bump on a lot cause I didn't drink. I didn't

do any drugs

anymore, but she was partying out

her

like that.

 📍 I'm just saying. Our lifestyles just weren't matching. And so I, the choice I had was, am I going to be a bump on a log or am I going to, go out there and, hang out with her. 

The Return to Addiction: A Downward Spiral

And,  so I did, I chose that. And it's, it was so 

interesting

that, drinking wasn't really the big deal, but one night we'd gone out to a club and I had probably four or five drinks 

feeling

pretty intoxicated.

But I went to the bathroom and when I got in there, there was a guy in there and he said, Hey man, you some of this. And I look and it was crack. And I, 

that's 

that does not happen. Like you do, 

aren't

just hanging out in the bathroom selling them. It's so hard to find, but he

said, yeah.

I said let me try it. If it's good, I'll give Buy everything you got, sure as heck, I just, I got a little bag from him and I was scared because my, I had to tell my wife and I didn't do anything until we got home. And then,

I told her and she was angry and this and that.

I said, I didn't care. I was drunk and I took a few hits and it was off to the And it

was a

very

slow buildup, but over time I ended up, missing work and got dismissed from basketball because I had a run in with the police downtown, looking for drugs. I didn't have any at the time,  the cops chased me down and beat me up.

And, 

I

had a,

an

incident and got charged with fleeing the police, which

was

a felony, but got down to a no, I was still the crack. And you're still married at this time?

Still married? Yes.  

Seeking Treatment and Facing Marital Challenges

that was the

beginning

of the end of our relationship because I ended up going to treatment 'cause it just spiraled outta control rapidly. 

had more money this

time

around, I had 

So

it was every weekend or every She ended up, I ended up going to treatment again, and she she wasn't in a position where she wanted or felt the need to stop doing the things she was doing. So while I was in there it was almost time to come get done, complete the treatment, and I

found

out that she had moved out.

That was my problem. This and that. So that was the beginning of the separation.  

  📍 ​

 I'm curious,

Were

you surprised by how easy it was

after

20 years to be right back into an addiction  in this, isn't just  weed or something else. This is a serious addiction. And

so

I would have been surprised.

I bet you thought you were cured 

I don't

know that I was surprised. I think I was I was surprised

that I, that it,

the initial episode happened.

but once

I started, that did not surprise me. I always thought, and I laugh now, but I always thought I was the worst. Nobody smokes crack  I'm just so obsessed  so no, I was not surprised.

I just had more access and it became,

This is how I'm going to die. That's how it became. It was not necessarily to have fun or to get accolades or meet. It was, I do not like. the situation I'm in.  📍 

The Impact of Personal Loss and Addiction

I think my wife leaving and that was a reinforcement of you're not good enough. This is things I've learned since then, but at the time, my family's gone.

They're, kids are grown or out of the house and I'm just sitting here by myself in this house waiting for my family to come back and nobody's coming back. And so 

my thing 

The Cycle of Treatment and Relapse

and till I just have a heart attack and it would be a great way to escape while slowly killing yourself You're denying the very activity you're doing While it does its and so you go to treatment again and Was it a different experience

this

time? Treatment no

wasn't,

I, I was, think I was doing it

to

Save

my job. I was doing it to, show some, but I was in, even in there, I'm just fantasizing about it. And, I just needed to feel good. I didn't, I wasn't feeling good when I was sitting in treatment, I wasn't feeling good.

Any

other time other than when I was getting high. And for that moment, then I wasn't feeling good. I just was wanting 



Smoke till I didn't wake up or smoke till something happened. I would buy a bottle of booze and slam it and go sit in my garage, turn on the car, some people found

Then

he brought me to

the 

like, dang I'm

just curious then,

if you're in

treatment, and you're looking at a sober future, was that scary for you? I wasn't looking for a sober I was doing it because, like I said, the reasons were if I lose my job, I'm not going to have money to that was, that's it, I need to, So they had put this in place to keep your job and other things we need treatment.

Yeah, I went and showed back

up

Professional Life and Its Challenges

to work and stuff, but even I was really good. I

was

a student

Advocate, so I dealt with race issues and, any kind of, multicultural issues.

Issues with

So I was the go between the families, the

students the

teachers, administration. I was like the heavy hitter if there were any kind of racial issues or gender issues or anybody treated unfairly.

so it was pretty prestigious

and I learned a lot. And  before the drugs came in, that was another, 

motivation

I was pretty

well respected 

and did a really good job with that.  📍 

Family Dynamics and the Path to Treatment

​

 How old were your kids when you went into treatment?

Were they adult age and did they know? They knew. My son was, when it started, he was 17, and my daughter was in college. But my son

had moved.  with his mom. And so when I went to treatment and I was, I felt betrayed because nobody told me this

was happening. 

they

came to visit me. Matter of fact, I came home

like the

Thursday. I was getting out

on a

 📍 Monday. I  pass or whatever. So we all went out to dinner on Thursday night and, 

talking

about looking forward to me getting home, completing this and blah, blah, blah. And then I find out that they're gone like I called on Saturday and nobody's answering and I called all day and I got no come to find out.

So there was a sense of betrayal. Even if my own son wouldn't answer the phone to tell

me

this is what's going  then, I didn't immediately get out

start

using. I was still, I'm going to prove to everybody that, this is, but eventually being home in the house alone, waiting for my family, like I said, to come back, work became less and less about the actual job than it was about having 

a

way to sustain addiction.

A means to an end. Yeah. Cause I'd never missed work and now  in Mondays, Tuesdays and no sick time. So now I'm losing days and people,  we don't know what they know. I know I look different. I knew I just, my parents,  I'm sitting in my office and I'm sleeping half

and

just closing my door and I, very minimal interaction with kids.

I didn't want to.

I did

what I

had to do, but So what happens after this how long of a period of time is it from when you leave treatment till you decide

That you're just gonna forget it sounds like to me a slow ride into I don't care  Yeah, there must have been another crisis moment for

you after that.

There's a couple way So I lost my job or retired, 

I could still get my

pension, but. I was done which

  But I was high at the time and I just was like, okay, that's one less thing. I have to worry about so Ended up going to outpatient. I was stopping for a while. 

A New Beginning: From Oil Fields to Personal Crisis

  📍 ​

 I went started going back to church and then  I Heard about this job in the oil field.  I went out  Yep, I just need to get away from everyone get away from the situation in order to maintain my house, I had to work, I had to I  Dickinson, North Dakota and commuted, I worked in the oil field  the oil boom. I was making money. Crazy amount of money, but I was able to maintain my house and, get my son graduated from high school even though he was living with his mom. I did that, but I was away the situation, no drugs out there, while there was initially didn't came back home a few times.

The situation just wasn't great. It wasn't good, eventually I would come back and right into town and then go right to the streets, see if I could get some dope. I had met someone dating or something. So we connected and, I really wasn't in a position  love anybody sex. eventually she got her using drugs.  So we're,  that became the relationship. And then, the, situation that I got myself into was we decided to quit. That went on for and quitting drugs or putting the relationship no, using together. 

kept escalating decided we're going to stop. And I couldn't see her and,  or stay there. Every time I'd stay there or she would stay with me, we would result to going to get drug. That's all the relationship began. And I didn't care. I just. so we stopped for a while and then I went to her house one night we ended up getting some more that night, had a incident.

Facing Consequences and Finding Redemption

Her daughter came so thing, one thing led to another and I was sexual offense go to prison that 40, 

Exploring Faith and Forgiveness

You mentioned you had gone to church. Oh yeah. Did you grow up in a family that took you to church? I did. Yeah, my dad's a pastor. He's retired now. Yeah, that must have been so hard for him.

  📍 ​

 Oh, it was hard for everyone, yeah. Did you keep a lot of secrets then because of who your parents were and what their expectations no. I, think  the one, parents are it's a tough one. They hoped I would take after my dad.  Because they've always seen or felt that I had despite all this stuff.

I don't, my dad never expected me to. They hoped I would, but never expected. He's very much leave it in God's with me. Lord knows nobody else can deal with me  . So I I was tough and, so I was embarrassed for the family. I certainly, wasn't trying to, but I was just going through just some terrible things.

And of course it always affects those around you. Did you keep in contact with this? Oh, yeah, I did. They drove me to treatment a couple of times. I have an assessment. I didn't have a real good relationship with them growing up. They're from the old school and things to me discipline wise or whatever has to make sense if it doesn't make sense then why are  so I was you would say rebellious not in a you know I didn't get in trouble I was a straight A student I was great grades like said that star basketball player all  but I was I didn't understand their harsh  discipline  It wasn't like biblically just, it was just, I come to find out this is how they grew up in an abusive situation  my mom had me when she was 16.

So for them, it was probably normal. This is what everyone does. Yeah. And so they're going to continue to correct. And for me, I'm like, why are you doing this? I don't do things to get in trouble. Why am I in trouble? And, and then the other thing being the oldest, I could see their growth and learning as parents on down through the siblings, but I am still the one that had these wounds from, you were how they learned to raise the other ones I want to do or do.

We don't want to do it this way, but yeah this is all we know. So that was. come to understand that's where it all started. That's where it manifested and being not being allowed to express feelings or thoughts or, cause I said so is a rejection of your authentic self, which is really a challenge if you are trying very hard to do your best and you want that to be seen.

And the response you're getting is something else entirely. Yeah. I better stop doing this authentic thing I'm doing and adjust and, I'm wondering if, and I'm sure this is true, it's almost impossible for someone who is, Upset with someone, they're never going to be satisfied. There's nothing you can  perfect in their eyes.

 📍 That's their demeanor unapproval. And just, yeah, it's what is wrong with me?  You don't like me. You may say you love me, but you, your attitudes towards me very strongly suggests to me, I'm perceptive. I get it. You don't like me.  Okay, you like what I do because I'm a straight A student and I get good grades and you can show me off because I hear you on the phone telling all your girlfriends how proud, Oh, Alphonse came A school.

Meanwhile, you didn't tell them that, sit your butt in here. We're going to conferences and you better not have a bad, So you're terrified to go to conference when they're the, cause back then it was a half day. So you're sitting in the home just thinking about the whole nine weeks.

  📍 ​

 Did I do one thing wrong that they're going to tell, as you're just in turn, then you come home there, they come home from conference and here's your report cards and, straight A's, no discipline, but there's no pat on the back. There's no good job. There's no, I'm proud of you.

That's that's the expectation and that's it. But then you come downstairs and you hear her on the phone bragging to all her Say that to me. Yeah.  So then prison seems a really unlikely place to some of these things that you're searching for. Did you find some direction in prison or did that come later? 

No, that's where it came. The prison was the life changing  event not only because I've always been a believer, I've always I accepted the Lord when I was like seven years old but I heard of Charles Stanley, I think once say Oftentimes, men have a perception of God do of their father.

If I'm terrified of my dad and know I can't do anything right in his eyes that's how God sees me. He only sees the bad stuff. And, the wrath of the Lord. Yeah, Jesus loves me, but God is gonna get you, man, cause, look what you did, you kiss that girl or you know We're thinking about this or you did up and it's just this constant like I'm not good enough You know, that's my  So why would I get up in the pulpit and follow my dad's because God doesn't like me. Nobody likes me  unless I Make them by being on drugs or being drunk or be superficial, the authentic self. I have a very similar story to yours in that being a believer  and raised in a church oriented family. But this has been a common theme I've heard where there's a difference between the moment of salvation and really making Lord of your life.

And so it sounds like about to have happen  an understanding he needs to be the boss of you I Don't know that I look at it as him being a boss of me. I think that's For me, that would be you know, I don't like I'm not someone that Gives in to titles and authority much I'm very much people are equal and we're gonna I understand your position, even at work.

It's I understand your title as manager, but your doesn't give you a way to treat me talk to me, like down to me no, we're not doing that. But that's just me. That's part of my,  and I accept that now. What happened  is as, so the ironic part was as working with students for my whole career and just elevating them and being part of their lives and coaching girls and coaching boys and just, trying to get them to be the best versions of themselves that they could be.

And then have a situation where me and this woman and her daughter have some inappropriate, that, that hurt me. Like I know that hurt them and her, but  for me, it was. against all values that I have and having a daughter myself. So that was the struggle  me. And then I, so I, when I went into prison, aside from having to not be a target, soft person and adopting this attitude of, We're not going to, you're not going to be doing stuff to me.

Like I'm not that guy. if I have to die, then we'll just go. Cause and I'm not a tough guy. I'm not as, but in there you have to present, you have to. And there's some things that I seen that this is a different world. It's different rules. It's different.

I don't get it. I don't want to get it, but I don't want any of that stuff happening So I adopted a very hard exterior.  

  📍 ​

  📍 Meanwhile, what's going on inside was my relationship with the Lord because everybody else was gone. Like it's just me and him now.  And what's going to happen? What are we going to do with this?

so I started, I ended up. going through Quest for Authentic Manhood program in, addressing some of the wounds that we have  biblical, scriptural program, Christian based So we started with my dad and, I was able to, some light bulbs just started  come on. 

About how do you see your father? How  What would you tell him? 

it 

was very emotional. And, I just  to love me. Because I would sit next to him and listen to his sermons. You'd have the little record player with preachers 

I would just sit there listening to him with them. And I love listening to my dad I get it, it moves me. The word forgiveness learning that forgiveness is, so we're holding on to these resentments. So the Lord was working on me with all of these things.

  📍 ​

 And, I became a mentor in there. I became, I went through some treatment in there, but it was more, I was really in tune with the spirituality  God, however, I always had the guilt blanket. It's I'm going to chapel, I'm reading my Bible, I'm understanding what I get it. I do this and yeah,  I did this that says, if you harm one of yeah, Jesus is forgiving and he died and he, all of that was, but I never got rid of the weight of what had happened for About  two years, I was learning about what's going on internally, but spiritually  I just still had the, God you, it's just, it was just there. He's going to avenge this and, but yeah, I was going to chapel. I was saying things in chapel. I was leading Bible studies and internally I still had this thing going on.

The miraculous. Moment I was in chapel and they had the guy said  The chaplain said that they have this program that they were doing they were gonna be starting. It's called quite Pastors to prisoners. So if you want a pastor to connect with you Sign up, you know send us a note and  match you up with somebody they'll just come in and visit and you pray with you I'm like at this point I didn't that prison thing had built up.

So I didn't trust people. I was leery. I don't, I'm not going to be touchy feely, all this stuff. But I do  think I need to pray with somebody on a regular basis. So I got a message  pastor wanted to meet with me his name was Pastor Dave and David Mackey. And he came in. And,  so  tell me your story,  And he's this bubbly guy, but I didn't, I didn't trust him right away. It was just like okay I'm just going to do this. And so think it was the second time  told him the story and what's been going He said the magic words to me and he said he appreciated me sharing my  Alphonse, what do you know about grace? And it just hit amazing grace.  no, let's.  Let's explore God's the next several months, he would come once a month  we would talk about grace.

And every time I would just get a better understanding. And then it hit me that God has spoken through these prison walls that you don't have to carry this. You are forgiven. You've worked on forgiving everybody else.  And I want you to know that I have forgiven you demonstrated this and I've demonstrated my grace by sending my son, meaning all of the sins, all of them were nailed to that cross.

And you do not have to walk around with this anymore. And. That was so incredible it was so it was life changing and pastor Dave came  and he continued  To we just talked and he was just a regular guy, and said he wanted to meet my family and he did he would come and said so I met your sister I met your daughter.

I had tea and your parents and he's yeah, your dad's a little reserved I Suspicious, I'm like, yeah, this is my dad and he's not gonna say too much. So then we had a relationship and After I got out man, he was there and we would go to ball games and fishing and we'd listen to the sermons and he was a Lutheran pastor. 

church and then I said here, man, we got to listen to one on my sermons.  And so he's so we're in the fish house listening to sermons, but we would talk about the Lord and we constantly talked about grace and relationships.  

  📍 ​

  📍 He said, It's just  I love that you  absolutely true. We hear a personal relationship with Jesus, which is an important relationship that one can have an experience, but  there's more. God created us as relational beings, correct? And so it's about relationship with each other And what it did and what  I've been empowered to look back over  my life and recognize this is why you did what you did. You were not feeling accepted. You were feeling But God accepts you and that's, that has come into the core of my being and I don't worry anymore. And I know it's tough because, Get grace I just understand it's my motto for life now and I have a sign in my home about grace and that's what people yeah, they call me the grace guy at chain breakers Because I don't get caught up in the things I had done or the things I'm gonna do or this I said God has taken care of all of that.

My deal now is, they said that, grace doesn't mean you get to do anything you want. I said, no, why would you want to, somebody loves you now and you just want to make them happy. Yes. So you're going to try to do things that pleasing that other person. I said, love is when you have it on the inside, it comes and you start to do things that way.

And, but I don't get tripped up. If I make a mistake, somebody cut me off and I called them a  one day, and.  My girlfriend was like, Hey, I've never heard you talk like that. He's ah, I'm not going to get all bent out of shape for that. I'll take that to the throne of grace. And, Lord, I need to work on this.

I know that some prison residue was still there, as you're a verse  the Bible that I mentioned quite often on my blog because I thought about it a lot after I started reading the Bible in prison.  And   📍 the verses are in Romans 7 and the beginning of Romans chapter 8.

And so in Romans 7, 15 it says, For I do not understand my own actions. I am baffled, bewildered. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe.  And he goes on towards the end of the chapter to say,   📍 Oh, unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am, Who will release and deliver me from this body of death?

And what you said is the best part after, Oh, thank God. He will through Jesus Christ, our Lord.  And he goes just on to say like you talked about that this is through Christ, Jesus sacrifice and the Holy spirit working in our lives. humbling to know that the apostle Paul who wrote so much of the new could say these very things about himself.

And we know that he was. a terrorist himself and so carried a lot of guilt. And he saw this as the solution. If it's a solution for him, it's good for everybody. Absolutely. Absolutely. We are getting close to our time, but I want to ask you one more question. 

Advice for Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Grace

Looking back on all that you've just shared and even more that you know, if anybody were in your, the situation you had been in, what advice would you give them?

What advice could you your old self if you could go back in time? The thing I try to talk to people now about is identifying What it is that, that is causing you or making you feel self And that self destruction manifests itself in a lot of I say Allow God to reveal  what's Trauma, maybe what issues from youth where it usually comes from is causing us to have build these defense mechanism and these protective but also Medicaid, I don't want to feel this.

I don't know why I'm doing this. I  would encourage people to really try to dig in and not be afraid of that.  because that's where the truth is and that's where the healing is. And that's where God can come in allow him take that over. And then the other thing I is really focus on grace.

And when you hear those words, amazing grace, what does that really mean? That saved a wretch like me. It means you're saved and to believe it. And it's not our own strength. I can't. Be good enough to undo all the bad stuff. Only Jesus can do that. So I don't have to have that burden. I don't have to walk in this perfection.

I'm perfected through Christ. And as long as I'm connected to the vine, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And that's my message is it's so humbling, but yet it's so empowering at it is. And  I like what you said of, Connected to the vine, Jesus says in  three, without me, you can do nothing, but Paul also says with Christ inside me, I can do all things And that's so powerful for someone that's really struggling. It's not just the grace of forgiveness. a hopeful Future filled with purpose and with meaning that is Yes.  and that's what sounds like you're So I want to thank you for coming here. This is amazing. Yes.

Yes Thank you so much for sharing your story and you know I am interested knowing what happens in your future where you go from here. A lot of this is recent and  I believe that when God puts us through difficult, hard things, it's because there are even greater things he for. And I'm certain that's going to be true with you.

And so I want to hear about it. Absolutely. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. And for more great episodes like this one, I want you to visit me at holly bot. me and check out all the from surviving to living spotlight episodes. Thanks for joining us.  

  Look for more episodes that inspire at hollybot.me. Until next time, remember, your story is never over. God's grace is always waiting to rewrite it. This is from Surviving to Living.